Can One be Possessed by Demons? (292 views) Subscribe   
  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     7/7/2003 3:44 am  
To:  ALL   Poll (1 of 60)  
 
  646.1  
 
  Can One be Possessed by Demons? 
Yes, explain   
11 votes (61%) 
No, explain     
2 votes (11%) 
I don't know     
3 votes (17%) 
Maybe     
2 votes (11%) 
  
18 people voted in this poll

Your vote was Maybe on 7/7/2003 9:40 am This poll expired 7/28/2003 3:34 am
 
 
 
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/7/2003 9:56 am  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (2 of 60)  
 
  646.2 in reply to 646.1  
 
Hi OmsFalcon,

 

Interesting topic.

 

For certain humans are harassed by Evil  Demonic, spirits.

 

The Bible represents dangerous and evil spirits as wolves seeking to devour us sheep.

 

The Bible then Presents God in Jesus as the good Shepard who protects and leads us to safe places.

 

The wolves stay away from the Shepard because the Shepard is not unarmed He carries a Rod (club) and a Staff (long stick) and is perfectly able to punish any wolves that come near him.

 

Since it is the Shepard that has the tools and not the sheep the safest place for the sheep is at the feet of the Shepard Jesus. The closer you are to Jesus the safer you are from the wolves. It is in straying away from Jesus and his teachings that makes us vulnerable to the attacking spirits.

 

Psalm 23 The LORD is my Shepherd;  I shall not lack (want). .. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: He leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou art with me; Thy rod and Thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

 

God Bless you,
David A. Brown

 

P.S. We might need to add another option or two to the Poll.



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org




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Edited 7/7/2003 1:12:27 PM ET by David (DAVIDABROWN) 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/7/2003 10:19 am  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (3 of 60)  
 
  646.3 in reply to 646.2  
 
Hi,

 

I wanted to add that if ever and when ever we do find ourselves away from the feet of Jesus the Shepard of our Soul all we need to do is to call out to Him and He will rescue us from the many dangers and perils that we face in life.

 

Jeremiah 33:3 Call unto Me (God), and I will Answer thee, and show thee Great and Mighty things, which thou knowest not.

 

God Bless you,
David A. Brown



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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  From:  Aunt Bee (bbtoberaz)    7/7/2003 6:35 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (4 of 60)  
 
  646.4 in reply to 646.1  
 
Born again believers  NO.  Anyone else, who gives their consent by word or behavior, yes.

 

  
 

 



 
 
 
 
 

 
  
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  From:  Adygha   7/7/2003 7:23 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (5 of 60)  
 
  646.5 in reply to 646.1  
 
....Yeh, if we keep on treating someone who is schizophrenic, epiliptic or psychedelic with exorcism.  
  
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     7/7/2003 11:35 pm  
To:  ALL   Poll (6 of 60)  
 
  646.6 in reply to 646.1  
 
Interesting commentaries....but let's see some scriptures to prove your point.  In this way we can learn from each other and not give way to our opinions.  What do you say Saints?  Scriptures please....
         

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/8/2003 8:58 am  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (7 of 60)  
 
  646.7 in reply to 646.6  
 
Hi Omsfalcon,

 

Excellent post!

 

The Bible is clear that non-Christians can and are possessed by demons and that Christians in the name and authority of Jesus do cast out the demons.

 

As far as Christians becoming possessed? Im no so sure, Im not 100% either way.

 

It is clear though that Christians battle the demonic forces and we are harassed by them.

 

Ephesians 6:10-18 is spiritual protection written for the Christian to gain victory over the demonic realm.

 

God Bless you,
David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     7/8/2003 5:13 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (8 of 60)  
 
  646.8 in reply to 646.7  
 
You know David, I would not have posted a provocative question unless I had the biblical answer.  I'll wait for a while yet before I give the biblical answer. Amen!

         

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/8/2003 5:48 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (9 of 60)  
 
  646.9 in reply to 646.8  
 
Hi Omsfalcon,

Excellent Topic!

I'm looking forward to your material.

God Bless you,
David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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  From:  Aunt Bee (bbtoberaz)    7/9/2003 9:41 am  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (10 of 60)  
 
  646.10 in reply to 646.6  
 
>>Interesting commentaries....but let's see some scriptures to prove your point.<<

Scriptures with demon-possessed people:

Mt 4:24; 8:18; 8:28; 9:32; 12:22

Mk 1:32; 5:16

Luke 8:27

Acts 19:12

There are plenty more.

Scriptures with demon-possessed Born Again Believers:

~~None~~If someone can find one, I would be interested in seeing it.

 I thought it was so obvious, that everyone already knew the scriptures about people being demon possessed.

The rest of what I said, came from experience.

  
 

 



 
 
 
 
 

 
  
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     7/9/2003 4:13 pm  
To:  Aunt Bee (bbtoberaz)    Poll (11 of 60)  
 
  646.11 in reply to 646.10  
 
The demon possessed were not Christians, they were Jews or they were heathens.  Isn't that not true?  So on this point, we agree that a person can be possessed.

However, you believe that born-again Christians can not be possessed.  This is where you need to dig in the scriptures to find the truth.  I'll bring the shovel Aunt Bee, you do the digging!  <;o)]

         

 
  
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  From:  Aunt Bee (bbtoberaz)    7/9/2003 4:52 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (12 of 60)  
 
  646.12 in reply to 646.11  
 
So you are going to show me where the Holy Spirit and a demonic spirit can possess the same body at the same time? 

Not possible.  Not Scriptural.

  
 

 



 
 
 
 
 




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Edited 7/9/2003 7:53:07 PM ET by Aunt Bee (BBTOBERAZ) 
  
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From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     7/9/2003 5:22 pm  
To:  Aunt Bee (bbtoberaz)     
 
    
 
Do you know who the famous writer and preacher of the word of God named Charles Spurgeon?  Here is what he had to say about the Holy Spirit and man's sin. Sin, by the way, is legal ground for demonic activity.

God's Holy Spirit and man's sin cannot live together peacefully; they may both be in the same heart, but they cannot both reign there, nor can they both be quiet there; for "the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature;" they cannot rest, instead there will be a perpetual warring in the soul, so that the Christian will have to cry, "What a wretched man I am!  Who will rescue me from this body of death?"  

But in due time: the Spirit will drive out all sin, and will present us blameless before the throne of his Majesty with exceeding great joy. 

-- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

=========

Sin and the Christian

When a person sins they are agreeing with Satan and rejecting God.  The Word states "How can two walk together unless they are in agreement."  When you sin you are allowing Satan to walk with you with the degrees of the closeness of the walk differing depending on the circumstances, type, and depth of the sin.  

Lets look at the picture of the Promised Land.  It was the land of the Canaanites.  This Promised Land is a picture of the new believer.  Joshua led the nation of Israel after the parting of the river Jordan.  They walked into Canaan on dry land.  Muddy feet represent sin and one who walks on dry land does not acquire muddy feet.  God gave very clear instructions to Joshua, they were to conquer and destroy every Canaanite in the land.  They were to kill every man, woman, and child in the land.  No Canaanite was to remain alive.  God warned Joshua that if they refused to destroy the Canaanites, they would remain a thorn in Israels side.  As a result, not all of the people were destroyed, and eventually the nation of Israel was lured into pagan worship and thus incurred the judgment of God.  The Assyrians removed 10 tribes and the Babylonians removed the final two tribes of Israel from the land.  

When a believer has received salvation and is walking with God there are many different areas of his/her life which have not been given over to God.  Any area not given to God can remain a stronghold for Satan against the Christian's walk with God.  The strength of the stronghold is determined by the sin involved.  Any demon in control of these areas might remain there unless removed.  The stronghold must be removed and given over to God so that the demon(s) can not return.  

How is this accomplished?  The first step is to search out your heart and determine what areas of your life have not been given over to Jesus.  This may include past hurts, pain, and occurrences.  All areas are exposed to scrutiny.  Some may be finances, relationships, your time, and etc.  Let the Holy Spirit guide you in your search.  When an area is exposed and identified don't hesitate to confess that area and ask that Jesus apply His blood on it.  Now let him control it.  Give it all to Him. 

 

         

 
From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     7/9/2003 5:26 pm  
To:  Aunt Bee (bbtoberaz)    Poll (14 of 60)  
 
  646.14 in reply to 646.10  
 
Ezekiel 8 the Temple of God

There is a common belief among most Christians that Satan and the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in the same locality.  Whereas this belief may be comforting it is not factual or scriptural.  In the physical temple of God is His Shekinah glory.  Within the temple were men and women who worshipped false gods.  The false gods of the Bible, as with all false gods today, are demons.  Men and women were worshipping demons in the temple of God.  God had not departed from His temple while demons were being worshipped.  Here we have a picture in Ezekiel 8 of demons and the Holy Spirit both dwelling in the Temple of God.  

1 Corinthians 3 states that the believer is now the Temple of God.  In verses 16 and 17 it states that we are not to defile the Temple of God.  

If we use the temple as an example of the believer then we know the temple has three basic parts.  They are as follows:

1.                  The Outer Court 

2.                  The Inner Court 

3.                  The Holy of Holies

If we correlate this to the believer then we know the believer has three basic parts.  They are as follows:

1.                  The Body = Outer Court

2.                  The Soul = Inner Court

3.                  The Spirit = Holy of Holies

In the 
 
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From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     7/9/2003 5:27 pm  
To:  Aunt Bee (bbtoberaz)     
 
    
 
DEMON POSSESSION, OBSESSION, OPPRESSION

The term Possession is misunderstood in the sense that Christians are not owned by Satan but are owned by the Lord Jesus Christ.  Remember that at Salvation the fullness of redemption is not realized.  It is true that our spirits are reborn by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit however, the believer remains in a fallen body impacted by sin.  Our redemption is future in its fulfillment but it is present in its reality connected by Faith.  For the promises of God, by faith, are realized by those present as being fulfilled at the moment of belief.  The redemption is fully realized when Jesus Christ calls out the names of those dead and alive in Christ to rise.  In a moment those who are alive will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.  The transformation will be the full realization of our redemption from the carnal to the spiritual. 

We find in 1 Corinthians that the mind is renewed by the Word of God and the flesh is presented as a daily living sacrifice to God.  The spirit is born again unto life by the Holy Spirit of God.  The mind is transformed as you grow in Jesus Christ.  The flesh is crucified and denied because it cannot be redeemed.  It will eventually perish.  The flesh mentioned is not just physical flesh.  The flesh mentioned are the thought patterns and belief system which are patterned after the ways of this world and bad theology.  The flesh consists of the wrong beliefs about self, the distorted view of what are valued, deceitful thoughts, wrong concepts of identity, misguided goals, heretical beliefs concerning the character and identity of God.  This list is not exhaustive.  

Satan can dwell in, oppress, and obsess any area not surrendered unto Jesus Christ.  He can reside in the areas that a Christian refuses to submit unto the Lordship of Jesus.  Satan cannot just enter someone unless he has legal right to do so.  Legal right comes through a number of ways.  

1.                  The first is personal sin.  This is especially true for sins that involve the occult, witchcraft, false religions, drug use, and sexual sins.  

2.                  The second method of legal right comes from inheritance.  A demon can indwell in a non-Christian and Christian from birth if they have a legal right from Generational Sin.  

3.                  The third way that a demon can indwell is through incest or rape.  

What is important for you to realize is that any demon that you inherited before being born-again might remain in you even after your redemption.  There are cases where they automatically leave.  Those that stay do so because they don't have any where else to go.  Remember the demons preferred to go into a herd of swine rather than the alternative of wandering to and fro or dry places.  In a Christian they always have the opportunity to cause him/her to sin and thus keep him/her defeated.  Dry places represent unregenerated people, who have not spiritual waters; cities, towns, villages, and or countries such as Babylon.  As scripture tells us that Babylon is become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit.  Dry places also are representative of inanimate objects that may be picked up by people.  By handling these objects, the demon can transfer to an individual if there is legal ground, which is sin, to enter into the individual.  Those that handle or purchase antiques or rummage sale items risk having a transfer of spirits unto themselves.  It is wise to pour the Blood upon the object and yourself before you handle or purchase any new or second-hand object.

         

 
From:  Aunt Bee (bbtoberaz)    7/9/2003 7:58 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (16 of 60)  
 
  646.16 in reply to 646.15  
 
Well, you are right about one thing.  One does need a shovel for THAT  pile of Bull-ony.

Spurgeon is probably spinning in his grave from the way you twisted  his anointed words.

  
 

 



 
 
 
 
 

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/9/2003 9:33 pm  
To:  Aunt Bee (bbtoberaz)    Poll (17 of 60)  
 
  646.17 in reply to 646.16  
 
Hi Aunt Bee,

 

Thank you for your kind input in the forum.

 

I recently read through  a book by Warren W. Wiersbe called The Strategy of Satan and I thought that he handled the topic of Christian demon possession really well.

 

He states that possession aside Christians are oppressed and confronted by demons and therefore it is a valid topic of concern to the Christian. Let alone we are the hope to a non-Christian world.

 

I think that Minister Falcon is doing an excellent job in taking the forum discussion into new territory and I am thankful for it.

 

Everyone knows that as Satan is able to discourage and upset the body of believers he gains the victory. Even as there will not be total agreement on all doctrines let us gain the victory and have total grace among all the believers.

 

Thank you again for your very valued input.

 

God Bless you,
Your brother in Christ Jesus,

David A. Brown

 

 



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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  From:  Aunt Bee (bbtoberaz)    7/10/2003 7:45 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (18 of 60)  
 
  646.18 in reply to 646.17  
 
Thank you for the book reference. 

Demons, like any other created being, cannot stand against the power of God.  

There is enough sin lurking in the heart of man, that everything doesn't have to be attributed to demon possession.  To do so, glorifies/magnifies Satan's power, and gives Christ's redemptive work an appearance of impotence. 

Perhaps, we all would be better served extolling the mighty power of our Lord, than the limited power of a fallen angel.

Your sister in Christ,

Becky

  
 

 



 
 
 
 
 




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Edited 7/10/2003 10:46:49 AM ET by Aunt Bee (BBTOBERAZ) 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/10/2003 2:52 pm  
To:  Aunt Bee (bbtoberaz)    Poll (19 of 60)  
 
  646.19 in reply to 646.18  
 
Hi Aunt Bee,

 

Very Good point!

 

Im thinking that as you are exactly right demons cannot stand up to the power of Jesus and therefore they have disguised themselves as a non issue.

 

My point being that I listen to a huge amount of Christian radio and nearly every single Christian Minister or speaker when addressing demon possession of any kind will almost always throw in I know a missionary in Africa as though all the demons live in Africa. I think that is a most dangerous teaching.

 

Biblically if anything the USA and England have probably the most demonic activity as we are the shaping and molding Nations of the world and that is mainly how Satan is working in conforming humans into a worldly ungodly system.

 

Thanks for your patience in this discussion.

 

God Bless you,
David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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   From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    7/10/2003 4:16 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (20 of 60)  
 
  646.20 in reply to 646.19  
 
I am both blessed and intrigued by this discussion.  I will be following it, for sure.  I won't say what I 'believe' about the subject just yet, though.  :)   I will say that I've certainly learned more about the topic from reading Scripture, than listening to anyone teach me about it, thus far.  The Lord is gracious and exposes the truth to those who are willing...:)  I'll be back another day to give my input.  [Lord willing, of course!]

cya later David.

God bless you.

_____________________________
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From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   7/10/2003 4:49 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (21 of 60)  
 
  646.21 in reply to 646.19  
 
Hi David, 

Good point of reminding us that the demonic is not confined to deepest darkest Africa. As Eph. 6:12 states, "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood BUT...." However, the next verse tells us how to fight the demonic vs 13..."take up the whole armor of God that you be able to withstand..." 

Have a real problem with Christians being possessed, do not believe it is possible, influenced yes..I do believe that. :) 

Also, I don't see in scripture any concrete reference to generational demonic activity. The sins passing down to the third and fourth generation are the natural consequences of sin. We all inherit a sin nature and that is plenty enough. 

One should be very cautious about the "sins" of previous generations....and how it affects the living today.Jesus told the disciples that," neither this man or his parents sinned BUT that the works of God should be revealed in him." John 9:2 

It is good to discuss the prevelence/activity of demons but not major in it. Scripture is somewhat silent on the matter and for good reason, it directs us to not dwell on the spiritual world but on Jesus Christ. 

Regards, 
R/C 
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/10/2003 6:32 pm  
To:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    Poll (22 of 60)  
 
  646.22 in reply to 646.20  
 
Hi Amy,

 

Im looking forward to your input!

 

I have some more thoughts on this important topic as well.

 

I think it was good timing on the original post as we should visit this topic from time to time.

 

God Bless you,
your brother in Christ Jesus,
David A. Brown



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/10/2003 6:50 pm  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   Poll (23 of 60)  
 
  646.23 in reply to 646.21  
 
Hi R.C.,

 

Good points!

 

On this generational thing, for sure the demons have been around for generations as they were either all created as Angels prior to the creation of Adam or they are a product of the demonic offspring and the flood of Noah.

 

We might want to have a separate discussion on just what is a demon and what is a fallen Angel because surprisingly there is some good Biblical info that they are two separate things.

 

i.e. fallen Angels are not presented Biblically as possessing people they rule over their domains it is the demons that actually desire to possess  inhabit a human.

 

Continuing the evil spirit real has been around since mans creation and therefore they know what tricks worked on great, great grammpy, and grammy and they know that we are Humans and as Humans we have Learned and Observed behavior passed down from the previous generations and they know that the sin is in the human blood and therefore we inherit our sinful condition so I think the evil spirit realm does hit us with more than we realize.

 

Biblically the evil spirit realm is pictured as overseeing and controlling areas. Which was easy for them because families stayed in one location for many generations.

 

Now apart from this say one day you decide to go on a vacation and it really is a vacation because likely you get to leave behind some demons and I think this is why parts of vacations are so refreshing.

 

Or if you move away from the old home town you Really Do have a New Start but is just that a new start and the demons will network and tell the new demons your old weakness and the new demons will try to entrap you into the same old ways.

 

That is why Jesus said to take an ax to the Root of the problem, the unclean act, the Root being the evil spirit influence and it needs to be cut off no other way.

 

Just my thoughts and Im looking forward to everyones input.

 

God Bless you,
your brother in Christ Jesus,
David A. Brown



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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  From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   7/10/2003 7:14 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (24 of 60)  
 
  646.24 in reply to 646.23  
 
Yes, a discussion on demons vs. fallen angels and what might have transpired in Gen.6 would be of interest to many I'm sure. What exactly was Jesus referring to when He stated the Last days would be as in the times of Noah? 

I can appreciate there could be spheres of fallen angels domains. Dan. 10 certainly gives reference to angels fighting angels over territorial strongholds. How those battles might involve we humans, is not something that is clearly spelled out in scripture. 

The Screwtape Letters are a terrific glimpse into the maybes of demonic influence...I recommend reading it to all Christians. As good as it is tho to know the wiles of the enemy of our souls, our eyes need to stay focused on the Lord. You can detect a counterfeit best by knowing the real deal. 

Blessings, 
R/C 

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/11/2003 8:23 am  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   Poll (25 of 60)  
 
  646.25 in reply to 646.24  
 
Hi R.C.

 

That is the most important point.

 

You have to know the Real Jesus before you can begin to identify all counterfeits.

 

I know the banks and financial institutions when the teach about counterfeit money they First teach you what real money looks like then after you know how to identify real money i.e the ink color, the red and blue fiber strands the watermark, the texture, the symbols etc. then they might show you an example or two of a counterfeit.

 

I hope the Basic Christian studies focus on Jesus because that is one of my main principals to teach from the Bible and to encourage others to read and study the Bible as Only the Bible is the Truth of God and only the Bible with the leading of Holy Spirit is going to correctly lead us into all Righteousness.

 

God Bless you,

David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
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  From:  bumpas5   7/14/2003 7:55 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (26 of 60)  
 
  646.26 in reply to 646.3  
 
In order to be possessed by demons,one has to believe in demons. 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/14/2003 8:33 am  
To:  bumpas5   Poll (27 of 60)  
 
  646.27 in reply to 646.26  
 
Well now theres Wisdom.

 

If someone cant understand it or doesnt believe in it or doesnt acknowledge its existence than it isnt real and cant effect them.

 

I wonder Bumpas5 if someone has never heard of cancer and doesnt believe in it can they still get a cancer or any type of illness that is unknown to them?

 

God Bless you,
David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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  From:  bumpas5   7/14/2003 12:55 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (28 of 60)  
 
  646.28 in reply to 646.27  
 
You can prove canser,you can not prove demons. 
Christions have a two thousand year history of blaming anything that thay can not prove and or understand on there own brand of superstition.
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/14/2003 5:44 pm  
To:  bumpas5   Poll (29 of 60)  
 
  646.29 in reply to 646.28  
 
Hi,

 

The Old Testament of the Bible is about 6,000 years old and it also has much to say about demons.

 

Again being uninformed about the environment, including the spiritual realm (both the good and evil spirits) that we humans exist in and around isnt an accomplishment it is a shame!

 

God Bless you,
David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
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  From:  bumpas5   7/15/2003 2:39 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (30 of 60)  
 
  646.30 in reply to 646.29  
 
Do you think that the old testament of the bible,is suitable reading for young bible students??? 
  
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     7/15/2003 4:15 am  
To:  ALL   Poll (31 of 60)  
 
  646.31 in reply to 646.30  
 
The Function of Demons

Demons serve Satan in his kingdom.  They primarily affect and influence men and women on earth.  Their goal is to gain access to and dwell in the body and soul of men to influence the person to perform evil acts.  Demons can perform what would seem to be supernatural feats.  Their ability is directly limited to the legal ground of sin from witchcraft, or covenants of the past do based on permission from God and the victim.  Their primary goal is the destruction of the person and the prevention of the person from receiving Jesus Christ as their personal savior.  

Demons attach to our thoughts, emotions, and beliefs.  Their goal is to continually reinforce these incorrect thought processes and belief systems.  As long as the person holds to these they can remain secure.  If the person starts to reject these lies for the Truth of God's Word then the demons position is in jeopardy.  They will most likely be forced to exit once the person believes the truth in their heart.  

Picture an onion.  The outer layers are loose and easy to remove.  As you peel them back they reveal the tighter, hidden layers.  They are more difficult to remove.  They were there first before the outer layers were developed.  The same applies to a demonized person.  The outer layers are demons and behaviors we see on the surface.  Once a person works through these to the inner layers; sorrow, bitterness, resentment, rejection, hurt, and pain then true freedom can be experienced.  The key is to identify the incorrect thoughts and beliefs, weigh them with the Word of God, reject them, remove them, and replace them with God's promises from His Word.  

Demons claim the souls and bodies of man as their homes.  And they will fight to keep their property.  It is only by the Name of Jesus Christ, that they are forced to forfeit their possessions and leave the persons soul (mind, will and emotions).  We surrender more of ourselves as born-again believers to the Lord Jesus Christ and the demons are driven out, we continue to possess our souls as stated in Luke 21:19; work out our salvation as in Philippians 2:12; and take back the land once possessed by the demons little by little as stated in Exodus 23:30.  For little by little the Lord will drive them out of you until you are increased and inherit the land, which is the soul and body.

As we surrender these new areas of our soul to the Lord Jesus Christ, He begins working in these areas to continue to transform us into His image more into line with His character.  When the demon returns to the born-again believers house what does the demon find?  The Lord Jesus Christ at work where the demon used to reside.  The demon does not take up residence again, but turns tail and runs the other way. 

         

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/15/2003 5:39 pm  
To:  bumpas5   Poll (32 of 60)  
 
  646.32 in reply to 646.30  
 
Hi bumpas5,

 

Of course I think the Old Testament and the entire Bible is suitable reading for every including children.

 

A reading of Genesis is at least vital to every single person on the planet.

 

Lets stay on topic for the thread though.

 

God Bless you,
David



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  From:  pbarnes12   7/22/2003 9:46 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (33 of 60)  
 
  646.33 in reply to 646.6  
 
An interesting Biblical occurance was when the demon "Legion" possessed a man. This evil spirit had no body of it's own, yet wished to possess the physical body of a man. 
Then, when Jesus rebuked the spirit, Legion still wished to possess some kind of body. Christ allowed the evil spirit (or spirits) to possess the herd of swine, which ran wildly into the sea. 

This certainly was a strange Biblical account, but surely there are lessons to be learned from it. 

A.) Evil spirits do exist and can have influence over physical bodies. (that answers the poll right away) 

B.) By Christ's authority, these spirits can be rebuked and driven out. 

C.) Evil Spirits knew and do know who Christ is. (Called him, "Thou Son of God.") 

D.) The influence of evil spirits can be destructive, especially when they have power over the physical world. The most unfortunate incidents are when they have power over man or woman, who are made in God's image. 

So live your life in a way which allows only the Holy Spirit to have influence in your life. The spirit of God does not dwell in unclean temples, therefore keep the commandments and let the Holy Spirit be your guide. 

Paul Barnes
 
  
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     7/23/2003 3:57 am  
To:  pbarnes12 unread  Poll (34 of 60)  
 
  646.34 in reply to 646.33  
 
Amen Paul you are correct!  Except that Legion means 2000, not one.  Jesus was speaking to a Strongman who operated a stronghold within the demoniac.  Interesting how the demoniac still had a presence of mind to approach Jesus and ask for help.  Sort of paints a picture of a lucid person at times, knowing he is demonized and needing the Master's touch for salvation.

When approached as a Jew, we Christians think we can not be possessed, but Jews can.  Yet we are secondary to the Jew, for the Jews are the Chosen ones of God.  We are grafted into the Vine, not the natural branches.  It is just pure arrogance to think that Christians are above its natural brothers and sisters in the Vine.  We are warned in Romans 11:20-21:
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.


Thank you for your favorable and righteous comments. ~Minister Falcon

         

 
  
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  From:  Certain_Risk   7/23/2003 5:21 am  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (35 of 60)  
 
  646.35 in reply to 646.34  
 
Only a moron, that is a person of subnormal intelligence can believe that they are NOT ever possessed, obsessed or oppressed by a demons. This is a good post, Minister Falcon. Our body is full of iniquity and that's where demons hide. Don't people realize that all fall short of the glory? Some of these people on this posts really are not very informed and complain that you glorify the devil! How obtuse morons can be! Matthew 10:16....Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Some people don't obey the word and GET WISDOM, GET UNDERSTANDING! {Prov 4:5} Well anyway I had my say...and again glad there is someone on this thread that knows their word and has studied it to show themselves approved. 
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/29/2003 5:59 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (36 of 60)  
 
  646.36 in reply to 646.35  
 
Hi Minister Falcon,

This Poll has expired, see if you can go in and open it up again.

Expired Polls are no fun!

God Bless you,
David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     7/29/2003 11:33 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (37 of 60)  
 
  646.37 in reply to 646.36  
 
OPPS  David, I am sorry, I saw no activity and closed it and it won't let me reopen it; however, if you like I can resurrect it again? 
         




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited 7/30/2003 2:34:34 AM ET by Minister Falcon (OSMFALCON) 
  
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  From:  PBarnes14   8/2/2003 11:28 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (38 of 60)  
 
  646.38 in reply to 646.34  
 
Sorry for my slow reply. 
I guess I do realize that Legion represented about 2000. That is why I added the parenthesis to indicate plural in my statement. 

"Christ allowed the evil spirit (or spirits) to possess ..." 

I suppose I could have been more clear. Well, thank you for taking my comments to heart. God bless. 

Paul Barnes
 
  
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  From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    8/3/2003 9:52 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (39 of 60)  
 
  646.39 in reply to 646.7  
 
Hey, David,

I said I'd be back with some input, [and I forgot to go over OS's posts again to see what he/she? said about this.  I'll have to go see . :)  ]

Yes, people can be possessed.  Jesus said so.  :)

I am like you, I am not 100% sure either way, whether or not Christians can be possessed.  I lean toward 'yes,' because of so many things the Lord has shown me, and I have not found one Scripture to disprove what I've learned.  Some people say if we have the Holy Spirit in us, that we cannot have demons there, too.   Do we really KNOW that to be true?  or do we just THINK and HOPE it is?    I know lots of folks who base their opinion on nothing more than heresay, actually.  I want to search the Scriptures and know...but I can still only know what the Lord has for me.  

I have seen Christians who are into deception behave very strangely--as if there were 'someone else' in there with them.   I look in the eyes.   For instance, when the eyes change and the voice becomes 'harsh' and the entire countenance of a sweet, Christian person [whom I've known for decades] suddenly becomes this 'stranger,' it sure seems to me they are under the control of something other than themselves.   As suddenly as this 'take over happens, it ends and the person returns to their former state as if nothing happened.   [the change came, in this instance, when this person's rebellion was being exposed...by God's hand.]   This did not appear to be something on the outside influencing this person, but looked to be an internal thing.  [hence the change in eyes and voice and body language--[which was threatening.]  This is just one instance I've witnessed, of course.

Also, I don't say that all sin or evil within us IS a demon, but I do think we  probably can harbor demons within us...due to opening doorways because of certain sins and attitudes toward God, etc.  One attitude is the idea that we can do whatever we want as long as we put the label "Christian" on it.  This 'belief,' [deception] opens doorways to demons, IMO.   And, some say that the Holy Spirit resides in OUR spirit, which is inside of our soul.   [interesting, ay?]   These say that while demons cannot inhabit our 'spirit,' they could be allowed to get into the soul--mind, will, emotion--or they could have inhabited space prior to conversion.

 I know people who believe they have cast out demons from Christians and the resulting freedom that these Christians have enjoyed.   [and it's not that, what I term, 'freak-show' type of deliverance, but lots [LOTS] of prayer and the Christian needing to come to terms with lies they've believed.]

It is interesting, but I don't stake my salvation on what I think about this.   

hope all is well with you, David.  God bless you and keep you.....and may God's word always be true. :)

amy

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   From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    8/3/2003 10:54 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (40 of 60)  
 
  646.40 in reply to 646.31  
 
Have you heard of Jessie Penn-Lewis?

Thanks for your posts, BTW.

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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     8/3/2003 11:43 pm  
To:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    Poll (41 of 60)  
 
  646.41 in reply to 646.40  
 
Hi Amy,

Yes, I am somewhat familiar with her work.  It is dated, yet most of it is valid.  However, there have been additional information contributed by other saints on the subjects of warfare [deliverance], Pentecost experience with evidence in speaking in tongues, and other issues she tackled. 

My focus for the past 10 years is to read and study the bible.  I try to use various commentaries, concordances, and cross-referencing in determining truth along with the Holy Spirit while taking my findings to prayer.  I find that another's interpretation, although well thought out and well meaning, sometimes mixes the truth with opinion and therefore promotes a margin of err.  So my practice is to take any author's thoughts and compare them to the word and find I it to be either bona fide or bogus truth.  

In the case of Ms. Penn-Lewis, she errs on the side of caution rather incaution...War on the Saints is an interesting book.  Being from Wales, she must have been familiar with many pagan practices and had insight to demonic battles for the souls of men.  In truth the souls of men are in jeopardy but not the spirits of men who have been awakened through the born-again experience and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

In her book she states that man is totally set free from demonic realm and therefore is ready for battle.  However, this is not true.  The word contradicts her idea on this subject.  

The Great Deliverance led by Moses [a type of Jesus] is a picture of our personal deliverances.  From Egypt the Great Deliverance cast off the bondages of the Pharaoh [Satan], yet Pharaoh [Satan] still pursued God's people. Moses, through the power of the Holy Spirit, parted the Red Sea, represented the new birth experience.  We know that even though the people were set free they continued in the ways of the old life, with sin abounding.  This embodies the true nature of sinful man...even though saved, we still sin and still revert back to old man's ways.  

Speeding forward, we have Joshua, another type of Jesus who leads the new generation of people into the Promised Land.  The land that Abraham glory-walked but did not possess.  Promised Land is the inheritance of His people.  In this, we see that Joshua still had to remove the pagan worshippers off the land.  This is a picture of deliverance.  It was through warfare that the land was cleared, but not all at once.  It was cleared little by little so that the beasts of the field would not populate more prolifically than man.  

The struggle continues today in the Middle East and in the new and regenerated saint who submits to being delivered from the oppression, possession, and obsession of the minions of Satan.

God bless sister!

         

 
  
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  From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    8/3/2003 11:59 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (42 of 60)  
 
  646.42 in reply to 646.41  
 
In her book she states that man is totally set free from demonic realm and therefore is ready for battle.

------

I didn't read that in WOTS.  I got no indication of her belief in that idea either.  On the contrary, I see that she understood that any of us is susceptible to demonic influence and/or oppression and/or possession.  She is one of the first Christian writers I came across that acknowledged the truth of Scripture, as far as spiritual warfare goes.  [that hadn't bought into certain faulty doctrine of her day.]   The Lord has led me to many people who give ear to Scripture concerning this issue....which I am so glad for.  Even though I had been 'taught' in church not to 'focus on the devil, because it negates what Christ did on the cross,' the Lord kept drawing me back to His word which clearly showed me that to NOT know the enemy, is to be easy prey for his lies and deception.  We of course need to know the TRUTH, but we also are shown in Scripture how to come against the enemy in the power of Christ.  :)

I got the idea that her [Penn-Lewis']  WOTS book was in answer to the 'new' wave of faulty doctrine which had infiltrated the church in her day, through demonic means.

anyway, I was just wondering.   I think she had some very good ideas on the subject of spiritual warfare....including how subtly the demonic has infiltrated and continues to infiltrate the Church-- through deception.   

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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    8/4/2003 12:09 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (43 of 60)  
 
  646.43 in reply to 646.42  
 
Hi,

 

Are either of you familiar with Dr. Rebecca Brown.

 

I have her spiritual warfare books listed on the links and on the forum page as a resource for spiritual warfare if you want to give it a quick look over.

 

She is big on Christian deliverance, but what I really like about her is that she shows how the deliverance comes about by a close relationship with Jesus.

 

Isaiah 10:27 .. and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the anointing (presence of God).

 

Isaiah 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? To loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke.

 

God Bless You,
David

 



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     8/5/2003 1:45 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (44 of 60)  
 
  646.44 in reply to 646.43  
 
Hi David,

To be honest David, I have read one of Ms. Brown's book and found that it passes on some demonic forms upon reading it.  Being that I have a strong knowledge of the occult from not only this country but of other countries, I discerned this demonic transference.  I have spoken to other collegues of mine and they have found similar responses with her books.  

Here is the problem:  Paul tells us in Ephesians 5:12 

For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. 

And in Ms. Brown's book she does speak about the occult in details she should have left out of the book.  In this demonic transference has become a wile of the devil that has infected many people.  Deliverence prayer has been given to these people that have read her books and they have been set free. 

Ms. Brown warns anyone that reads her books that trouble could accompany her books.  She knows so therefore she is responsible for infecting the readers of her books.  

Now not everyone is infected or affected by her books, but as the demonic realm is crafty, it will wait and perhaps another person, a child, an unsuspecting person will be infected or affected in the years to come.  Demons look for open doors, lay in wait like a criminal about to pounce on an innocent person, and reside in dry places.  The book itself is a dry place.  And as an individual reads the book the eye is used as a means to penetrate to the soul, demonic activity.  

It was very difficult for me to read her book and I had to force myself until the Holy Spirit spoke to my heart and told me 'No!'  I understood that when one feels compelled to do something, it isn't the Holy Spirit, but the demonic realm in operation.  I put the book down and destroyed it.

 

         

 
  
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  From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   8/5/2003 3:18 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (45 of 60)  
 
  646.45 in reply to 646.44  
 
Hi Minister, 

A dozen or so years ago someone gave me one of her books to read. I was uncomfortable reading the book and did not finish it. If I remember correctly, what made me so uncomfortable was a chapter on Astral projection. I just felt as if my spirit was being courted, if that makes sense. 
Anyway, it a wise position whenever reading about the occult to ask God for a covering because there are seducing spirits. 

R/C
 
  
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     8/5/2003 5:21 pm  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   Poll (46 of 60)  
 
  646.46 in reply to 646.45  
 
Yes, wisdom is essential Rachel.  

I have an occult recovery site; however, it does not teach or glorify any aspect of the occult.  Yet, I write about the word and try to help those that are bound by the demonic realm to be set free.  On the site, you will see many people from both the occult and from the Christian community and I find it interesting how things go.  The Christian community goes in to read and perhaps take notes.  The occult community contacts me secretly so as to not let any of their friends know they want to get out of the occult.  It is a safe haven of sorts for them to be able to contact me.  For all intents and appearances it looks like there is not much activity, but there is plenty of activity behind the scenes.  The site needs lots of prayer for the lost....if you can, keep these people up in prayer...amen...thanks Rachel for responding to this posting in such a positive way.

         

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    8/5/2003 8:19 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (47 of 60)  
 
  646.47 in reply to 646.46  
 
Hi OsmFalcon,

 

Good point about feeling dirty from reading or hearing the wrong information. When I delete messages on the forum that is my number one delete.

 

There is the dilemma in that most of the Christian Church ignores spiritual warfare and when you find yourself in the battle most dont understand it.

 

Thanks for the input on the book. Jack Chick Tracks publishes and distributes Rebeccas books. I dont use his tracts I usually use ATS tracts but I think he is legit just a little overbearing.

 

Since we are critiquing I just saw the movie Seabiscuit and thought it was a very good movie about people and a horse and really how God used them to give hope to an entire nation swept up in the industrial revolution of change. I thought it was really neat of God to use a horse and the down and out people that he did!

 

God Bless You,
David



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  From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    8/6/2003 9:36 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (48 of 60)  
 
  646.48 in reply to 646.43  
 
I am familiar with Rebecca Brown.   And I'm also familiar with how her name is being slandered by witches, etc.  It is despicable what people are saying about her.  But, it's to be expected.  That's how it is with those who are doing the Lord's work and battling in the 'trenches.'   What she has done and written about is very 'unbelievable' to some, and quite believable to others of us who have been battling in the war, too.  

 There is a great move in the Church, to negate these spiritual battles and say that they are the makings of someone gone 'over the edge.'  

Also, in a church I used to attend, we were 'taught' NOT to discuss or think about anything of this nature, because it 'negates what Christ did on the cross!'  And I finally figured out, [on my own--with Scripture]:   this is WHY Christ died on the cross----to overcome sin and death and evil!   ??  As I read the Holy Scriptures, the Lord made it completely clear to me that I had been lied to...and that the enemy IS real and there ARE ways to overcome the Adversary in my life and in the lives of others through prayer, AND, that I am NOT negating what Christ did on the cross by acknowledging any of this.

I firmly believe what Dr. Brown said about Satanists infiltrating churches.  I saw this with my own eyes...the 'agenda,' as it were.  [as she spelled out quite well in one of her books.]   We had a very good place of worship, and people were growing in the Lord...but it got shook up and we got new pastors whose sole purpose became 'numbers,' 'programs,' and keeping faithful saints silenced!  [no kidding!]  I finally left after being wounded by 4  pastors in one way or another.  I said to God:  "I am going to leave now."  And HE said to me:  "GOOD!  I have been trying to get you out of there for two years!!"   [I'm slow. :)]  

  A family I know of who spent over twenty years there was chastised because the husband questioned a Sunday-school teacher when he began teaching a 'health and wealth' doctrine.  He [the guy I know] was called into the head pastor's office and told:  'you may continue going to class, but you will not question the teacher like that again.'   The man was stunned! 

  This was a guy who was in good standing and who had been a worker in the church, along with his wife and two sons for many years.  He had led classes, been an usher, been on the board, etc. etc.  The wife related this story to me about a year afterward, and she said the entire family was 'shunned.'  The people who had been as family to them for over 20 years, would no longer talk to them.  After much heartache, they made a difficult decision to leave.  [they were leaving their 'family' and dear friends that they loved!]   This wife said, when they walked out the front doors for the last time, ALL FOUR of them felt this 'thing' or 'presence,' slide off of them.  They were all shocked to FEEL this thing...all at the same time and in the same way, etc.  They knew then, that they were doing the right thing, and even though they were severely hurt by people, they know they are in God's faithful and able hands.

Anyway, I saw this church move from a vibrant place of worship to a new-age, Satanic stronghold.   Unfortunately, I'm sure it is still 'growing,' but not because there is any truth there.  It would be because it is filled with all the trappings and distractions from real faith in Christ--which people today LIKE.  I know there are a few faithful people in there who, for whatever reason, have not been able to perceive the spiritual take-over, but I have faith in God to show them--or to restore the church.  Either way, God is in control and knows the hearts of his people.  

Rebecca is right, that deliverance must come from a strong and close relationship with Jesus Christ.  He is our ever-present help.

in Christ, amy

ps.  what do you think of her 'werewolf' story?   I can see it being true, but having not experienced something as strange as this, I just wonder about it.   I have no doubt that Satan can manifest his 'power' in many different ways, it's just hard to imagine something like this.

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  From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    8/6/2003 9:43 am  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   Poll (49 of 60)  
 
  646.49 in reply to 646.45  
 
You're so right.  We must ask for spiritual protection no matter what thing we read or see or hear.  Not just for the obvious things, but also for those 'quiet' and subtle deceptions we encounter on a daily basis.  [esp. if we are into researching doctrine/theology, etc.]  IMO, those are much more dangerous, because they ARE so subtle and laced with the truth.    

I really had no problem reading one of Rebecca's books, though it did have some strange things in it I haven't experienced for myself.   IMO, the more we know of the enemy, the better.   Nothing can touch us if we are armored up and hedged about with the protection of the Lord.  We just can't let Satan have power over us that way.   [speaking of which, I have a friend who believes that by capitalizing 'Satan,' I am giving HIM power.  IMO, that is superstitious and an unbiblical way of thinking.]

 

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  From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   8/6/2003 11:32 am  
To:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    Poll (50 of 60)  
 
  646.50 in reply to 646.49  
 
Hi Amy, 

I whole heartedly agree about asking for a covering when researching into the doctrines/theology of any religious group. There is nothing Satan can deal with so effectively, as with a little lie...a little leaven. 

Ya', I've run into some folks who feel Satan can get some sort of power out of our using A capital S. Well , he loves us to hair split over a knat too....anything to keep us distracted from focusing on, keeping our eyes on JESUS...the author and finisher of our faith! 


R/C 

 
  
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  From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    8/6/2003 1:02 pm  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   Poll (51 of 60)  
 
  646.51 in reply to 646.50  
 
There is nothing Satan can deal with so effectively, as with a little lie...a little leaven.

------

yes, yes.   

 

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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    8/6/2003 6:16 pm  
To:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    Poll (52 of 60)  
 
  646.52 in reply to 646.51  
 
Hi Amy,

I completely agree with your post.

It is very identical to my experience and somehow the Church has been deceived into thinking that tranquility is godliness and has therefore basically maintained a Sunday School mentality about all doctrines especially concerning the Spiritual realm which does not help the maturing Christian much.

Regarding the werewolf thing I actually think Satan is very powerful and these could be demons masquerading as people and then as werewolfs or maybe they are people. The physical realm does seem to be putty in the hands of demons.

Part of the Genius of the Bible and Gods plan is that God simple says for us to stay with Him, He doesnt get into the grim details much, and then by only following Gods guidelines we are unstoppable by Satan.

Rebecca Browns section on Church warfare is unbeatable. It is my favorite part and also I really agree with her about not dividing the Church into age groups including sending kids to Sunday school. When I went to Sunday school it makes actual Church seem unimportant and it is hard to transition to regular church attendance and now worse Sunday school is mostly puzzles and games. When I went to Sunday school we studied the parables of Jesus every Sunday at the time I didnt like it so much but it is pure Jesus and therefore an amazing bunch of seeds were planted in my life.

God Bless You,
David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org




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Edited 8/7/2003 2:59:30 PM ET by David (DAVIDABROWN) 
  
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  From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    8/7/2003 9:30 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (53 of 60)  
 
  646.53 in reply to 646.52  
 
Hi David. :)

I agree that we shouldn't be separated into age groups for Sunday school, etc.  [all those things that divide up the family]   Our new church has NO Sunday school!  [yay!]   I am so pleased to find folks with like minds.  

I used to attend a 'community' church, and went to the youth pastor because my youngest wanted to be baptized.  Well, I was already having problems with the loud, rock music introduced there, and this guy helped me make my decision not to return.   

We got to talking about the youth programs, including Sunday school--he was trying to get me to get my kids involved.  I told the guy that I didn't think it was necessary to segregate people by sending them off to separate rooms like that, and that I wanted my kids to hear the Word preached instead.  And HE said:  'well, I agree with you.  However, this is what people from the street expect from a church, so that's why we do it.'  I was floored!   Did he really say that?  wow.   [he also had a glazed look in his eyes AS he said it, which I find in ALL cases where someone is deceived and believing in unbiblical doctrine--that is, when they try to plead their case that it IS biblical, or when they're trying to make YOU feel as if you're somehow defective in your thinking, because you don't agree with them, etc. ]

My experience with pastors being in bondage of some type is pretty good now.  These are guys who are so 'nice' and who would literally never hurt a fly, but they are living in deception and their ministries have become hotbeds for satanic infiltration and operation.   

IMO, much of this deception has COME, because, like you say:   "the Church has been deceived into thinking that tranquility is godliness"    

One of these pastors [who has yelled at me on the phone, [long story],] is a very good friend of a good friend of mine.  When I related my story [of the pastor--because I was shocked at his behavior]  to MY good friend, she absolutely would not believe it.  [and this is a person who I know to be honest, but she just can't fathom her other friend behaving in such a way.]   Well, I was also shocked by his behavior---until another pastor did the same thing concerning an entirely different situation.  When I put all these things into perspective, they are all part of the same scheme---Satan's plan for my life.

 IMO, Satan knows those who are willing to look at the truth of spiritual warfare, and he will stop at nothing to get them 'out of the picture' or silenced somehow.   To an outsider, that sounds paranoid, but it is the truth.  But the best truth is:   Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world!  :)

We met some folks a couple of years ago who belong to a semi-charismatic church.  [affiliated with a pent. denom]  They invited us when they learned we weren't attending a church.  The wife made it clear that the music wasn't 'loud rock music.'  I tell ya...she is either deaf or deceitful or deceived---that music was THE loudest and rock-n-est stuff I've ever heard in church!  [IMO, she is deceived, because later we went to their home, and the husband started telling us about 'water-witching' he does.  He said he checked it out with a 'godly' person, and that person told him that there is 'nothing wrong with it.'  The 'godly' person said that God can give US knowledge, just like Satan can give non-believers knowledge.  [hello?]   I'd tell you one other thing the husband of this couple said to me, but not here.   It was a huge clue to me about the spiritual realm, though...and the guy probably doesn't even realize he said it.  ]

It is all so interesting, ay?    I tell ya, until the Lord opened my eyes and heart to the truth of the matter of spiritual warfare, I was living a pretty defeated life considering all the things that have happened to me.  Now I know why those things occur in Believers lives, and now I know how to come against the enemy, and that I'm not 'negating what Christ did on the cross' by doing so.     The enemy wants to shut us up, but unless we let him--he can't.   I am so grateful to know that, and so grateful to serve a loving, powerful God who gives us a way to deal with the things of this life.   

God bless you, David. :)

amy

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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    8/7/2003 12:07 pm  
To:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    Poll (54 of 60)  
 
  646.54 in reply to 646.53  
 
Hi Amy,

 

Great post!

 

Another bad thing that the segregation does is that it sends the elderly off to their own class as well and therefore the rooted grounded longtime and lifetime guidance of the elderly isnt available for the children and others to interact with.

 

Im sure Satan is delighted by that ploy, the majority of Gods Prayer Warriors laboring where they cannot be seen and honored or learned from.

 

The Church body is Exactly one Family and we need to maintain that Family presence.

 

God Bless You,
David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     8/7/2003 12:42 pm  
To:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    Poll (55 of 60)  
 
  646.55 in reply to 646.42  
 
Hi Amy,

I researched for that statement I made on the web site for Penn-Lewis, I even copied it as it was written and actually quoted it.  Now for the life of me I can't find it.  So at this point, I am still doing research to see where I had found it and then give you the url for it so you can see for yourself.  Until then, let's just say that you are correct.  Penn-Lewis is a good writer and it would be a disservice on my part to speak against her writings...so with that, I have reserved an apology on this matter.

 

         

 
  
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  From:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)     8/7/2003 12:45 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (56 of 60)  
 
  646.56 in reply to 646.54  
 
I totally agree with you and Amy concerning desegregating church services from the children.  

No where in the bible is it written that the scriptures were taught separate from the temple teachings except that it was the duty of both parents to teach their children at home.  

I would imagine it was taught on the Sabbath or Sunday [no debate intended here] and then through the week taught to the children in childlike terms for understanding.

 

 

 

         




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Edited 8/8/2003 6:26:56 AM ET by Minister Falcon (OSMFALCON) 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    8/7/2003 1:02 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (57 of 60)  
 
  646.57 in reply to 646.56  
 
Yes,

 

And for argument sake no one is saying never have the kids apart for another function but it should be the Exception and not the rule.

 

I have taken part in many prayer groups where the Mothers held their babies and kids came and went and if anything it actually adds to the prayer and study, it doesnt take away form it, you just get used to it.

 

Shuffling kids off to strangers in other rooms is usually a prescription for disaster and Only because Satan has his workers out as well and that is it to be in the open with your deeds.

 

God Bless You,
David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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  From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    8/7/2003 4:12 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (58 of 60)  
 
  646.58 in reply to 646.54  
 
Im sure Satan is delighted by that ploy, the majority of Gods Prayer Warriors laboring where they cannot be seen and honored or learned from.

--------

to be sure, David.

 

 

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  From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    8/7/2003 4:15 pm  
To:  Minister Falcon (OSMFalcon)    Poll (59 of 60)  
 
  646.59 in reply to 646.55  
 
That is very gracious of you.   Thanks. :)
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   From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    8/7/2003 4:20 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    Poll (60 of 60)  
 
  646.60 in reply to 646.57  
 
Only because Satan has his workers out as well 

-------

so true!  a church we used to go to had hired nursery workers....mainly from a denom which preached false doctrine--which some think of as a cult.  i thought it was strange at the time, and KNOW it is now.

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